Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
November 25, 2017, 04:50:08 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: If you are still using YaBB SE, please consider upgrading to SMF as soon as possible.

YaBB SE Community  |  Development  |  Portal Discussion  |  Topic: First post!!! « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Reply Ignore Print
Author Topic: First post!!!  (Read 10247 times)
irbrian
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 489


I create. Therefore I am.


WWW
Re:First post!!!
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2003, 01:11:55 PM »
Reply with quote

irbrian, I see your point, and I'm right there with you on the separation of code and style, but programmers then run into a problem.

Indeed, but perhaps it is time someone address that problem and do it right the first time.


Quote
Most of what is presented is information from a database. And since each presentation is using different tables/fields, it's impossible to remove the <table> tags from some of the code. Well, not impossible if you write code in the "template" to create them on the fly, but not practical to cover all situations.
Unless the application is designed that way from the ground up.. 8)


Quote
A well designed table, used for this purpose is actually preferable to people visiting a site with various impairments (visual, aural, mobility) because information is presented in an expected manner and their speech readers or alternative input devices know how to find their way around a table.

Agreed, so shouldn't the software allow the designer to develop his site that way? Seperation of duties, I say -- let the programmer supply the means and the leave the designer to do his job unhindered.


Quote
And since the data is different on nearly each page, each table needs a certain amount of styling built in (left align that column, center that one, <th> here, <th> there, etc). Therefore the table ends up inside the code instead of outside it.

Not at all. All scenarios can be handled with nestable templates. People were preaching about the wonders of CSS earlier -- a system based on nestable templates allow them to stretch this power to its limits (wherever they truly lie) by style-classing every element on the page individually.

Nestable templates can run into some efficiency problems, but.. there is a solution to every problem.. :)


Quote
With that said, I think most forums and portal packages out there go way overboard with tables... to the point it impairs accessible access to a site (confusing input devices with nested tables for instance). A table is a structural layout tag, not a "let's have cool borders" layout tag, and nested them 3 deep for various effects is not the way we should be doing it.

I used tables as an example, but it's not the only offender of imbedded html, just the worst one. When they hard code their style classes into them, it gets worse. :)

Agreed again.. ::)


Quote
OTOH, portals are designed for folks to get their site up and running with minimal fuss. If someone wants complete control over style in every page of a site, then they probably also know enough css/stylesheet to do it themselves and avoid the portal packages in the first place.

Absolutely!! Which is why I have always maintained that portals have their place. Portals serve a very important function in the great "circle of web design!" ;D But they are only one part, they are not THE solution to web development, or design.


Quote
If someone makes a portal that gives you complete control over every aspect of style, you end up confusing the newbies, make it overly complicated for the average person, and only really make the "I want complete control" folks happy. And you lose a larger market share than if you made a few key decisions for them instead.

The trick is to find the happy medium. Since most of these packages are GPL, we try to appeal to the larger market. I'm sure if you offered to pay someone, they'd be more than willing to custom write a portal for you. :)

Best not make a portal then, eh? Best turn to something else -- like.. say.. I Have It! -- a really intuitive and flexible CMS. ;)


Quote
I for one, am doing my best to get rid of NTS (Nested Table Syndrome) in whatever I write. :)

For which I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I mean that sincerely. :) Nested tables have their place -- but for solidarity of structure, not so much for visual design.
Logged

Imparting great wisdom daily to those who will mistake my words as such.
[Unknown]
Global Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7830



WWW
Re:First post!!!
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2003, 08:09:43 PM »
Reply with quote

I'd just like to say:

YaBB SE 2.0 must have a really good template system in this case, because not only does it address all these concerns, but it's fast too.

*is proud he took part in writing the template system*

-[Unknown]
Logged
irbrian
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 489


I create. Therefore I am.


WWW
Re:First post!!!
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2003, 08:32:42 PM »
Reply with quote


I'd just like to say:

YaBB SE 2.0 must have a really good template system in this case, because not only does it address all these concerns, but it's fast too.

*is proud he took part in writing the template system*

-[Unknown]


*is happy that someone has finally leaked some useful info about Trinity* ;)
Logged

Imparting great wisdom daily to those who will mistake my words as such.
[Unknown]
Global Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7830



WWW
Re:First post!!!
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2003, 08:42:31 PM »
Reply with quote


*is happy that someone has finally leaked some useful info about Trinity* ;)


*warns you that he's about to rewrite it, but it should just get better... and be a little easier to manage.*

And, I leaked NOTHING.  Greg Robson already said something about as leaky a little while ago.  Of course, it is a completely different template system than it was then....

-[Unknown]
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Reply Ignore Print 
YaBB SE Community  |  Development  |  Portal Discussion  |  Topic: First post!!! « previous next »
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP YaBB SE Community | Powered by YaBB SE
2001-2003, YaBB SE Dev Team. All Rights Reserved.
SMF 2.0.12 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.17 seconds with 21 queries.