YaBB SE Community

YaBB SE Info => News From the YaBB SE Team => Topic started by: David on August 02, 2003, 12:00:24 PM

Title: Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 02, 2003, 12:00:24 PM
Dear YaBB SE Members,

We would like to thank you for your patronage as SE forum users. Many of you have been with us since the beginning and have been extremely loyal.

As was posted a couple of weeks back after our chat session, YaBB SE will be phased out and we will be launching a new forum in its place and we hope you will give it a try.

The name of the new forum is SMF and we will be hosted over at Simple Machines: http://www.simplemachines.org

Our new forum has been significantly revamped and re-coded to bring us on par with other packages out there and we need your help to make it even better!

Addition by [Unknown] - 8/5/2003:
Please note that until SMF is released, support will continue for YaBB SE.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Vincent on August 02, 2003, 12:10:53 PM
wOOt!!!11 Lets take a look immediately!!
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: groundup on August 02, 2003, 12:14:29 PM
*gasp*
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Overseer on August 02, 2003, 12:45:43 PM
hurrah finally allowed to spread word!

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Douglas on August 02, 2003, 01:12:00 PM
Forums on SimpleMachines is temporarily down, I've already let the big guns know.  :)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Ben_S on August 02, 2003, 01:18:35 PM
must have been very temporarilly  ;D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 02, 2003, 01:18:55 PM
Forums on SThey impleMachines is temporarily down, I've already let the big guns know.  :)
They are up fine for me.  Remember, we will be doing work on the new site as things get completed.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: acf [delete me]! on August 02, 2003, 01:37:56 PM
what will become of this board?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Overseer on August 02, 2003, 01:41:22 PM
i belive it has already been said that it shall remain for the time being.. but obviously you can see certain sections are now closed.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 02, 2003, 04:06:38 PM


Hmmzzzz ... Simple Machines.. sound's like some toy.

YaBB is a name, known by so many people now.

Is this a seperate thing ... is this again "Yust a Bulletin Board" ....

I don't what to think about it yet ..
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Aquilo on August 02, 2003, 04:37:35 PM
I'm lost too...  ??? YaBB!

so is SMF the real name for trinity??
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 02, 2003, 04:40:28 PM
The release which was code named Trinity has been abandoned.  In its place we are making this move to a new name and SMF 1.0.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Douglas on August 02, 2003, 05:19:47 PM
Trust me, ya'll will like it.  I'm just salivating over the prospects of this.  :)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: skoen on August 02, 2003, 05:28:45 PM
I really enjoy the new SMF forum. Can't wait to see more of the features adding to it. The SMF community makes in fact the YaBBSE board look abit, 'old-fashioned'. :-\
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 02, 2003, 06:29:45 PM
Trust me, ya'll will like it.  I'm just salivating over the prospects of this.  :)

At the same way we liked YaBB 2  ;D

Why changing a good thing ....

[note] I am missing some name's .... are the not involved in  the project ?
http://www.simplemachines.org/team.php
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Feho on August 02, 2003, 06:41:23 PM
Simple Machines...  personnaly, I don't really like the name...

but it's not a reason to not use the new BB  8)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 02, 2003, 06:53:42 PM

It's not about the name..

I don't understand why..

They have a good concept in YaBB it is by now a well known name by bb users.

Why start all over again promoting a board ??

I guese the new bulletinboard the same as The YaBB SE 1.6.0  ( never to release ) with a another name and a another site.  

I think i am a litlle surpised .... what ever

Kitty
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 02, 2003, 07:01:31 PM
Kitty, I would advise you read the transcript from the chat we held a few weeks ago.
http://www.yabbse.org/community/attachments/log-yabbse_chat-1.txt
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Armadillo on August 02, 2003, 11:12:15 PM
Will there be a converter from Yabb to SMF?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 02, 2003, 11:15:00 PM
Will there be a converter from Yabb to SMF?

There is already a working upgrade script from YaBB SE to SMF.  We also plan to offer a variety of other convertors.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: charlottezweb on August 03, 2003, 01:53:24 AM
don't let people discourage you guys...it's a great step toward a better release.  I don't see how people can talk negatively about progress :P

Jason
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: skoen on August 03, 2003, 03:23:17 AM
Will there be a converter from Yabb to SMF?

There is already a working upgrade script from YaBB SE to SMF.  We also plan to offer a variety of other convertors.

Nice, but where is this convertor then? And is it available for download.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 03, 2003, 04:39:06 AM
Kitty, I would advise you read the transcript from the chat we held a few weeks ago.
http://www.yabbse.org/community/attachments/log-yabbse_chat-1.txt

Owkeee I have to read an important announcement in some kind of chat transciption...   ???

Do i have to read in between the line where people are asking for koffie and koekies... what is important for me and my forums..

Great i gues than you can read my point of view in this copy of my reaction posted op YaBB-nl


Nee en ik kan absoluut niet begrijpen waarom.

Als ik er om vraag wordt ik verwezen naar een of ander chat trans-script.... als dat script zo belangrijk is voor de voortgang van YaBB en nu Simple machines waarom hebben ze daar niet eventjes een normaal verslag van gemaakt.
nu moet ik uit het engels tussen de vragen om koekies en koffie door lezen wat er wel of niet anders word.

Ik kan niet begrijpen waarom na amper 2 jaar zo nodig een naam moet veranderd worden terwijl je nu juist aan het begin staat van een bredere naamsbekendheid.

Willen ze af van de community ? willen ze een ander imago ? ....  ik zie de mogenlijkheid van betaald installeren, hebben ze wel is nagedacht over de zorg achteraf ?  een forum installeren is als je het door hebt kinderspel....onderhouden is heel wat anders ??
Hoe willen ze dat dan gaan doen ?

Dank u wel voor de 20 $ u heeft een forum zoek het nu maar uit !! ...
Iemand die niet in staat is een YaBB (SMF) te instaleren kan het ook niet onderhouden .... of zijn daar de YaBB vrijwilligers weer voor ?

Tuurlijk staan er weer 10-tallen mensen te gillen Yeeaah great !!
Maar dat ben ik nu zo onderhand wel gewent... elke versie wordt met veel kabaal en veel yeaaah kreten ontvangen... als je dan goed kijkt en leest zie je dat als men uitgejuigt is het toch niet zo great en super was als men eerder dacht.

Ik vindt het gewoon zonde van de afgelopen jaren..er is een goed produkt neergezet ... men gaat nu met een noodvaart  een behoorlijk aantal stappen achteruit ondanks de betere software die ze bieden ..

Dat is mijn mening...... ik maak me er verder ook niet te druk om het is zo besloten ... oke leg ik me bij neer ...

Maar ik heb wel een aantal forums te onderhouden .. af en toe te upgraden ... en op deze manier is het voor mij een waanzinnig moeilijke keuze aan het worden.
ik zie nu al deze vraag van afc:
Quote
Waarom is eigenlijk de member table nie mee genomen?? nu moet ik weer reggen

Denk er maar niet aan dat ik de CX ooit nog upgrade naar een andere versie.

Ik vind het allemaal maar heel vaag  ...  Ik heb geen vertrouwen in in de support op langere termijn..

Kitty




Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Metho on August 03, 2003, 04:47:23 AM
Perhaps an english version will allow your point of view to be better expressed the majority of users on this board.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 03, 2003, 05:31:06 AM
Perhaps an english version will allow your point of view to be better expressed the majority of users on this board.


I know ...... but i am dutch ... and its not easy to read that transcipt and understand and find the the important lines.

When you have an announcement to make that is so important do it in a way all YaBB users can understand
and dont let them guess  ???



Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Daniel D. on August 03, 2003, 05:42:57 AM
What is difficult to read ? I'm german and could read the important lines. ::) Don't be lazy, try a little bit more...
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Metho on August 03, 2003, 05:54:34 AM
I can read the important lines, I just like understanding the whole thing. *shrug*

Methonis
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: acf [delete me]! on August 03, 2003, 06:57:27 AM
What is difficult to read ? I'm german and could read the important lines. ::) Don't be lazy, try a little bit more...

Not everybody is good in english  ::)

Hope the transcript isn't just a bunch off hot air.
And that it is a just yabbse with a few mods a few bug fixes and a new color.

Don't throw the child out with the water. I mean why trowh a way tons off info and a lot members. Why didnt just transform yabbse.org to simpel...?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 07:44:28 AM
Because it's not just YaBB in fancy new pants. It contains a significant number of change and new code, new features, new ways of doing things.

It's not changing back so come join us over at SMF.

If any of you have questions and can find a translator online to translate your messages to english, I'll be happy to answer your questions. Just email me or PM me at SMF.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Metho on August 03, 2003, 09:18:00 AM
I had someone who speaks pretty good dutch (or I assume so) translate the message. This should be pretty accurate...mind you, something could be wrong, and Kitty can say so if possible, but this may give a bit more insight into what all she was saying. It's in sections, first the dutch, then the english after the -->

--------------------------
Owkeee I have to read an important announcement in some kind of chat
transciption...

Do i have to read in between the line where people are asking for koffie and
koekies... what is important for me and my forums..

Great i gues than you can read my point of view in this copy of my reaction
posted op YaBB-nl


Nee en ik kan absoluut niet begrijpen waarom.
--> No, and i absolutely dont understand why.

Als ik er om vraag wordt ik verwezen naar een of ander chat trans-script....
als dat script zo belangrijk is voor de voortgang van YaBB en nu Simple
machines waarom hebben ze daar niet eventjes een normaal verslag van
gemaakt.
nu moet ik uit het engels tussen de vragen om koekies en koffie door lezen
wat er wel of niet anders word.
--> When i ask about it, i get pointed to some kind of chat trans-script...
If that script is that important for the progress of YaBB and now simple
machines, why didnt they just make a normal report about it. Now i have to
read an english text and figure out between the coffee and cookies what did
or didnt change.

Ik kan niet begrijpen waarom na amper 2 jaar zo nodig een naam moet
veranderd worden terwijl je nu juist aan het begin staat van een bredere
naamsbekendheid.
--> i cannot understand why after barely 2 years this name had to be
changed, while this one just started to become widely known.

Willen ze af van de community ? willen ze een ander imago ? ....  ik zie de
mogenlijkheid van betaald installeren, hebben ze wel is nagedacht over de
zorg achteraf ?  een forum installeren is als je het door hebt
kinderspel....onderhouden is heel wat anders ??
Hoe willen ze dat dan gaan doen ?
--> do they want to get rid of the community? Do they want another image?
... I see the possibilities  of payed installations, did they however think
about the after-care? Installing a forum is child's play ones you rumble it.
Maintaining is a whole other thing. How are they planning to do that?

Dank u wel voor de 20 $ u heeft een forum zoek het nu maar uit !! ...
Iemand die niet in staat is een YaBB (SMF) te instaleren kan het ook niet
onderhouden .... of zijn daar de YaBB vrijwilligers weer voor ?
--> Thank you very much for the 20$, you now have a forum and the rest you
find out for yourself!! ...  Someone who isnt able to install a YaBB (SMF)
wont be able to support it either ... or do the YaBB volunteers meant for
that?

Tuurlijk staan er weer 10-tallen mensen te gillen Yeeaah great !!
Maar dat ben ik nu zo onderhand wel gewent... elke versie wordt met veel
kabaal en veel yeaaah kreten ontvangen... als je dan goed kijkt en leest zie
je dat als men uitgejuigt is het toch niet zo great en super was als men
eerder dacht.
--> of course tons of people will start yelling yeah great!! But i am used
to that by now... Every version is introduced with lots of cheering... if
you then look and read thoroughly, it proves not to be all that great and
super as assumed.

Ik vindt het gewoon zonde van de afgelopen jaren..er is een goed produkt
neergezet ... men gaat nu met een noodvaart  een behoorlijk aantal stappen
achteruit ondanks de betere software die ze bieden ..
--> i just think it is a waste of all those past years... a good product was
introduced ... now they speedily go downhill, despite the better software
they offer.

Dat is mijn mening...... ik maak me er verder ook niet te druk om het is zo
besloten ... oke leg ik me bij neer ...
--> this is my opinion... i dont worry to much about it, it is decided that
way ... ok, i just put up with it.

Maar ik heb wel een aantal forums te onderhouden .. af en toe te upgraden
... en op deze manier is het voor mij een waanzinnig moeilijke keuze aan het
worden.
ik zie nu al deze vraag van afc:
Quote:
Waarom is eigenlijk de member table nie mee genomen?? nu moet ik weer reggen
--> but i do hve a few forums to maintain ... sometimes upgrades ... and
like this it is turning to an awfull difficult choice for me.
I already see this question from afc: quote: why is the h* is that member
table not included? Now i have to reg again.

Denk er maar niet aan dat ik de CX ooit nog upgrade naar een andere versie.
--> dont you beleive i will ever upgrade the cx to another version.

Ik vind het allemaal maar heel vaag  ...  Ik heb geen vertrouwen in in de
support op langere termijn..
--> i find it all very vague and obscure... i dont have faith in the support
long term...

Kitty
-->little pussycat [:-)]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 09:27:29 AM
Poor Kitty...it sounds like she is having issues upgrading and things? Well that is one of the major changes. We now offer paid support which she can take advantage of or become a charter member and get support for her forums.

The change makes it easier for us to move into a long term support position - makes it a much stronger package as well.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Matt Siegman on August 03, 2003, 09:32:56 AM
Good luck with the new board, though I wish you would have copied the member database over...
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: klumy on August 03, 2003, 10:30:21 AM
i also begin to like SMF ;-)

Except for the Icons
the old ones are better
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 10:45:23 AM
Heh it takes only a minute of our ultra important lives to sign up again...

As for the icons/smilies etc, what you see is ONE theme. The forum itself will ship with a few themes :) Shortly you'll be able to select a theme right on the forum as well.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: klumy on August 03, 2003, 11:23:17 AM
Quote
Shortly you'll be able to select a theme right on the forum as well.


I'm impressed  :D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: KarterJK on August 03, 2003, 12:28:22 PM
Ummm,
I just installed PHP,YabbSE,MySQL and now I guess I am a little confused.....

Am I understanding this correctly,  YabbSE is being replaced by SMF?  and YabbSE will not proceed any further unless someone else picks it up for future development..

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 03, 2003, 12:38:39 PM
Instead of releasing a version 1.6.0 or 2.0 under the YaBB SE name we have decided to instead release a 1.0 version under the new name of SMF.  This is being done to reinforce the idea of just how much has changed.  The project has evolved from the original port and has taken on a life of its own.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Zef Hemel on August 03, 2003, 12:40:25 PM
Poor Kitty...it sounds like she is having issues upgrading and things? Well that is one of the major changes. We now offer paid support which she can take advantage of or become a charter member and get support for her forums.

The change makes it easier for us to move into a long term support position - makes it a much stronger package as well.
FYI, Kitty is one of the crewmembers at yabb.nl and knows VERY well how to install YaBB (SE) ;)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Fizzy on August 03, 2003, 12:57:48 PM
Instead of releasing a version 1.6.0 or 2.0 under the YaBB SE name we have decided to instead release a 1.0 version under the new name of SMF.  This is being done to reinforce the idea of just how much has changed.  The project has evolved from the original port and has taken on a life of its own.

/me stands up and gets ready to be shot at.

Isn't that like Ferarri saying they're changing their name to Simple Cars Ltd and will start off turning our four door saloons?

I mean, YaBBSE has a fantastic reputation which it has spent years building up. I can understand the idea of a complete re-release, but to change the name and the site seems weird to me.
You seem to be throwing away all the hard work that you guys have put in in to making YaBBSE the best free BB on the planet.

Once SMF is ready to convert over to without any loss I will gladly consider doing it, but right now all I see is promises of it being great and yet it lacks basic functions that many of us take for granted on our mod'ed boards.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 03, 2003, 01:02:43 PM
but right now all I see is promises of it being great and yet it lacks basic functions that many of us take for granted on our mod'ed boards.
Remember that it is currently considered Alpha.  We know that YaBB SE 1.5.4 is lacking in terms of features and functionality and some of this has been fixed in SMF as well as much more planned.

I guess what I am trying to say is just trust us.  We havn't screwed you guys over in the past with upgrades, exception being 1.5.0 but we learned, and we don't plan to screw you over now.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 03, 2003, 01:22:08 PM
Isn't that like Ferarri saying they're changing their name to Simple Cars Ltd and will start off turning our four door saloons?

I mean, YaBBSE has a fantastic reputation which it has spent years building up. I can understand the idea of a complete re-release, but to change the name and the site seems weird to me.

The problem is, we _don't_ have a name as big as the Ferarri!
And people often have bad connotation when hearing the word YaBB. People often relate YSE to YaBB (slow, resource intesive, etc, etc) and not seeing that YSE != YaBB. With this big step we're taking, we're trying to create a fresh start for the forum software.
I do like the name YaBB and i think YaBB will gain its reputation back as a great forum software once YaBB2 is released, but somehow there's a feel that YaBBSE is always just YaBB's shadow if we're still using YaBB name, although all of the code has been rewritten in the new version. Of course there are pro and cons of using a new name, but I'll fully support the devs decision. :)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Tim C on August 03, 2003, 01:31:29 PM
I've had long talks about this with Jeff, Compuart and Joseph.

In the begining, I didn't understand why.
Now I do, and should I have some more time, I'd like to get involved.
It takes a while to get used to the whole idea, but it's the same thing, only a lot better...
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: [Unknown] on August 03, 2003, 01:34:13 PM
Look, here's what yuo have to understand, Kitty... others.  If I do a diff between 1.5.x's Sources/Admin.php and SMF's Sources/Admin.php... it'll come out as COMPLETELY different.  I mean, they're about as similar as 1.5.x's Admin.php is to 1.5.x's Subs.php.

All of the files have been so changed that there is not one single mod that will not require significant change to be ported from 1.5.x to SMF.

Now, I know we all like the "YaBB SE" name - I like it to... but, naming it "YaBB SE" gives everyone the wrong idea...

I've been told that YaBB SE is flat file.  I've been told about it's security holes, it's vulnerabilities.  I've been told it's very slow and inefficient.  Maybe it is... but SMF is not.

If you take a few moments to browse the simplemachines.org community, you'll notice ALL the load times are SIGINIFICANTLY lower there than here.  AND, both sites are running on EXACTLY the same web server.

The change made from YaBB SE 1.0.0 to YaBB SE 1.5.4 is less much pronounced than the change from YaBB SE 1.5.4 to SMF.  It is no longer anything like the YaBB it was ported from, so... well, quite simply it is NO LONGER "YaBB" Splinter Edition.

I made a theme for it once - for fun.  I made it look so much like phpBB I fooled a few people into thinking it was phpBB.

Keeping it as "YaBB SE" really is a farce - because it is no longer that.  It no longer looks like YaBB code.  $settings[7] will give you a number that means little to you... $moderators doesn't exist.... it's simply not the same any longer.

Now, if it had been ported off YaBB 2... then *MAYBE* we could have still called it YaBB SE.  But.. it hasn't been.  It's nothing like YaBB 2...

-[Unknown]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 03, 2003, 01:45:47 PM
Thnx Metho  ...

If someone of the YaBBSE org team members had been so kind to translate an make a normal info mailing out of it it was'nt so hard to find ot what the plans where !!

This quote make me worry

Poor Kitty...it sounds like she is having issues upgrading and things? Well that is one of the major changes. We now offer paid support which she can take advantage of or become a charter member and get support for her forums.

The change makes it easier for us to move into a long term support position - makes it a much stronger package as well.


Who thinks Jeff Lewis  he is !! to make such a remark !!
That giving me a no  trust at all  for the good support people get all over the world from YaBB !!


Yes i am Global Moderator  at YaBB NL, Admin at YaBB Platinum, Moderator at YaBB forum.com( perl).
I know how to Upgrade, install, make Mod's working, rewrite them for my need's  that not my issue.

I am talking for the people i give support,  should they pay for an upgrade to ??? ....  No Free support stay's ...
but for how long ???

If i read what Jeff Lewis say's to me ..... i know i will see that answere more than i will like in the future !! That makes me so angry, i think that's not the YaBB way of thinking


I know the code writers did a lot of work, worked very very hard I have seen a preview of this version in june, it looks great, i think they did a good job.
I can not find a download on the new site so i did not tested it by myself.

Just the way this is pressented gives me a  gmmbbllll feeling.....  that not the way i expected it


Kitty...

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: sensovision on August 03, 2003, 02:04:59 PM
I've impressed, great job! I like new look and speed! Keep on good job folks! I'm with you ;)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 03, 2003, 02:29:31 PM
Kitty, you missunderstood Jeff's post, and I think Jeff missunderstood that your translated post hinted that you're having some trouble upgrading

if you read the chat log carefully, Jeff himself stressed that the new forum (SMF) will be FREE and will remain FREE forever
that charter member is just like an advance paid support for people that would like to get involved a lot or need a lot of help/customization to their forum
but not to worry, free support is still offered, and will always still be offered, unlike some other forum (http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=82460)...

thought this was locked a few minutes ago, so I sent u an Im too... :P
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: chris on August 03, 2003, 02:30:36 PM
Who thinks Jeff Lewis  he is !! to make such a remark !!
That giving me a no  trust at all  for the good support people get all over the world from YaBB !!

Probably, Jeff thinks he is the guy who wrote most of YaBB SE together with Joseph and a few others... probably he thinks, that he is the one paying the bills for the server, probably he thinks he is the guy who had the idea (with some others) to take YSE to the next level... to move it away from the bad reputation it gained because some mistake YSE for YaBB 1 (Gold) and didn't know how much security work we put into the new versions, making YSE much securer than it was...

And do you know whats funny? All those stuff that Jeff probably thinks is true...

Quote
I am talking for the people i give support,  should they pay for an upgrade to ??? ....  No Free support stay's ...
but for how long ???

SMF will be as free as YSE... the only difference is, that you can get some special services if you pay... nothing more...

Quote
I know the code writers did a lot of work, worked very very hard I have seen a preview of this version in june, it looks great, i think they did a good job.
I can not find a download on the new site so i did not tested it by myself.

Just wait until a first public release is available... ::)

Quote
Just the way this is pressented gives me a  gmmbbllll feeling.....  that not the way i expected it

Yeah, and some people probably don't like the way YaBB.nl reacted on some things ::)

So simply calm down and wait what happens....
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Douglas on August 03, 2003, 03:03:11 PM
I'm sorry, I beg to differ.  Look at the load times.  Look at how everything is placed together.  Look at the features that are now STANDARD.  There's more changes on the coding then even I can see.  There's changes being made for Mod files to ensure the integrity of them and the fact that they'll work with the SMF system...

I'm sorry you feel the way that you do, however, if I didn't like the changes myself, i certainly wouldn't have requested to stay on as a member of the support team, or even be interested in porting the pathetic mods that I have over to the SMF version (IF they're not incorporated already, or planned for incorporation).

You seriously need to take a step back and read what you post, and before you even post, do a little investigation.  IPB's going through similar changes as well, so it's going to be interesting to see what you have to say about their changes.  :D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 03, 2003, 03:03:13 PM
I'm sorry that you feel is that it is just a new look.  The backend is completly different which will become aparent if you take a look at the code when it is released.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Grudge on August 03, 2003, 03:10:18 PM
Nightstalker,

I am under the impression that this *is* the next version of YABB SE just with a different name. I'm sure they haven't removed features just because of a change in name.

Also, SMF is still not finished and is still being worked on so it's not like features are even final. I don't believe that any features would have been lost because of the name change...

Of course I'm not in a position to say really but I obviously see it differently than you :D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 03, 2003, 03:11:00 PM
All this new board is is YaBBSE with a different skin.

it's the other way around actually
the code is completely new, but still using YSE look (as one of the templates)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: sensovision on August 03, 2003, 03:12:48 PM
It's funny how you get people's hopes up for YaBBSE 2, and just trash the entire project just like that.
NightStalker, is the name mean so much for you?? you said yourself that it's same YaBB, and does it change anything if board upgraded to next level and change it's name while great community who make it remain the same and still support it??? it's community so most important here is community, not a look or name of new board but people who support it and make it avaiable for thousand people all around the world. For me this is counts not name or skin which could be altered anytime...
And I really sorry to see that you blame people who brining this great free software to you and other folks who are wating for it for so long.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: charpress on August 03, 2003, 03:14:13 PM
Well, I'm off to take a look and judge for myself.

All I know is that originally I added a YaBBSE forum to my site as an afterthought and now it has become my site's main entry page. What happens is important to me, but I assume you guys know best and that I'll be happy with what you're doing.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 03, 2003, 03:23:06 PM
NightStalker, if you're a big fan of YaBBSE, why is it that u just registered here a few hours ago?
are just trying to hide your previous identity, or are you completely new in this forum? if you _are_ new, then u've missed a lot of discussions on the next version and our recent chat session, which will explain a lot about the name changing decision
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Ben_S on August 03, 2003, 03:25:40 PM
Unless you have seen the code how can you judge?

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 04:19:42 PM
Don't know why you guys reply to him...he JUST registered and his only 5 posts were in this thread  ::)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Metho on August 03, 2003, 06:10:51 PM
haha. Anyhow, people should quit arguing about whether the move/changes...they've already happened!! :D There's no stopping it now. Simple Machines has gained momentum and it's going to keep going.

And for those of you who DON'T think that people still equate the name YaBB SE with YaBB... I had suggested to the creator of an article management system (php/mysql run) who was looking for a forum to integrate with to check out Yabb SE. The first three replies were 'I heard that was slow' 'I heard a lot of hosts don't like those perl scripts' and 'Yabb is old and slow!' (note the absence of SE on that last comment)

Sorry, people still don't do their homework. They still think it's Yabb. *shrug* But this is like arguing about whether WWII should start...it's already happened.

Methonis
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Fizzy on August 03, 2003, 06:38:21 PM
Hey Metho,

We all know there there are ignorant morons who don't know the difference between Gold and SE, but then there are those that do research and can see the difference.

YaBBSE stands alone from Gold because it is far superior, faster and more resourceful. Some people would not know quality if it bit them on the bum.

Viva SE - God Speed SMF (or what ever the hell you want to call it .... Simple Machines ? Jeez ! What sort of message does that give ? ? )


Edit additional -

Jeez ! I have had time enough now to come to hate the name "Simple Machines".

I'm sorry but simple machines has bugger all to do with php, mysql, forums, message boards, admins, moderators, or any other bloody thing you will find in these pages.

Simple Machines as a name sucks big time.
"Simple" is a dumb ass mistake.

Unpopular ? I know I will be, but hey at least I'm honest.

I could aslways go for a copyright with "Dumb Threads" forum, but then that doesn't exist because no-one was idiot enough to go for a name like that,

"Simple" sucks. Nil Points!
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 03, 2003, 07:01:55 PM
we'll prove you wrong
SMF is going to be a great forum software, whether you like it or not ;)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: [Unknown] on August 03, 2003, 07:02:59 PM
Simplicity doesn't imply weakness or dumbness.  It's all in how you take it...

Most people wouldn't get something named "Complex Machines Forum", would they?  Complexity is bad.  Too much simplicity is bad too - but simplicity means that it works, works well, does everything everyone else does, and makes sense.  Who doesn't want that?

-[Unknown]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: gobbo on August 03, 2003, 07:23:09 PM
Will the new system be able to use my SE database. Or will someone else take over the YaBB SE project?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 03, 2003, 07:27:23 PM
Will the new system be able to use my SE database. Or will someone else take over the YaBB SE project?
It will be an upgrade just like any other version we have previously released.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: sensovision on August 03, 2003, 07:38:13 PM
Simplicity doesn't imply weakness or dumbness.  It's all in how you take it...

Most people wouldn't get something named "Complex Machines Forum", would they?  Complexity is bad.  Too much simplicity is bad too - but simplicity means that it works, works well, does everything everyone else does, and makes sense.  Who doesn't want that?

-[Unknown]
that what I wish to say, Simplicity is step to excellence! :D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: forum182 on August 03, 2003, 09:06:34 PM
Yeh, i also think the name "Simple Machines" sucks donkey balls, but the abreviation "SMF" is pretty sweet.

But it isnt about the name, its about the code, and how easy it is for users and admins to use.

I think this could really take on the bigger forims like vBulliten and phpBB, which both suck btw.

neway, good luck with SMF  ;D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 09:10:13 PM
SMF is the forum name. Simple Machines is the group name.

We make software that is simple to use  ;D
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: tweek on August 03, 2003, 09:58:00 PM
So I take it SMF will no longer be an "open source" project.

With the loss of open source, what promises do users of SMF have of not one day having to pay for SMF?

I can see some real heartache for users who migrate there YaBBSE to SMF and then one day be told they will have to pay for any new upgrades.  Why else would you no longer make it "Open Source".  

Please correct me if I am wrong and SMF will be Open Source.  

I have been around the net a long time and have seen many groups do simular things as a power trip.  YaBB was always open source.   Sorry, but I feel the move to SMF was more of a control move to take the large YaBB SE community, that has developed around the free and open source YaBB, to an enviorment that is controlled by a few.

My views of this have developed from the recent past by reading posts of how some in the YaBB SE community were taking exception to others splintering off YaBB SE and developing the open source in different ways and applying there name to the credits with the rest of YaBB SE developers.  I found this a little hypocritical because YaBB SE itself splintered off YaBB, an open source project.

I mean no disrespect to any here.  But if you move from open source, I feel it is a step in the wrong and disastrous direction.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: sensovision on August 03, 2003, 10:07:01 PM
from what I remeber Jeff posted several times that YaBB will remain free forever and I don't see the reason why not believe to him...
as for converting free scripts into paid ones you could check out this thread (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?threadid=213;start=new)...
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 03, 2003, 10:20:46 PM
So I take it SMF will no longer be an "open source" project.

With the loss of open source, what promises do users of SMF have of not one day having to pay for SMF?

I can see some real heartache for users who migrate there YaBBSE to SMF and then one day be told they will have to pay for any new upgrades.  Why else would you no longer make it "Open Source".  

Please correct me if I am wrong and SMF will be Open Source.  

I have been around the net a long time and have seen many groups do simular things as a power trip.  YaBB was always open source.   Sorry, but I feel the move to SMF was more of a control move to take the large YaBB SE community, that has developed around the free and open source YaBB, to an enviorment that is controlled by a few.

My views of this have developed from the recent past by reading posts of how some in the YaBB SE community were taking exception to others splintering off YaBB SE and developing the open source in different ways and applying there name to the credits with the rest of YaBB SE developers.  I found this a little hypocritical because YaBB SE itself splintered off YaBB, an open source project.

I mean no disrespect to any here.  But if you move from open source, I feel it is a step in the wrong and disastrous direction.
We have never said we plan to move from a license that falls under OSI guidlines.  As we near a release we will be looking over the current license used for 1.5.4 with our lawyer and work on modifying it to protect our work as well as try and stay within OSI guidlines.  Just because we are offering paid services does not mean we ever plan to require you to pay for the software.  Charter memberships offer advanced betas which are something we normally wouldn't be giving to anyone and thus is not taking the place of something but rather adding something new that we have not previously offered.  One thing users have requested is the ability to pay for official support often when upgrading their forum as they do not either have time or just want to make sure it gets done correctly.  If you want a forum you have to pay for, go use vB.  ;)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: tweek on August 03, 2003, 10:27:50 PM


from what I remeber Jeff posted several times that YaBB will remain free forever and I don't see the reason why not believe to him...
as for converting free scripts into paid ones you could check out this thread (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?threadid=213;start=new)...

So why go away from Open Source then?  

I think Jeff is honest with his intentions to keep SMF free.  But by not making it open source, you lose that gaurantee.  

By following your link you provided, it even shows another forum software that started out free but now is charging for support.  

It's a dangerous path to go down.  I hope YaBB SE users don't get burned in the future.


On a positive note, I will say I like what I see on SMF.  Very modern and very sleek design.  

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 10:49:07 PM
We still have the same license we were using for the last SE release, where were you when we made that change? ;)

Also, even if they ever were "burned" would you call it being burned by having free software for a few years?!?

Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: old dan on August 03, 2003, 11:40:24 PM
Well I'm kinda late on this whole debate (hey that rhymes) but what the hey, here's what I've got to say.

I like the new board and site. Very well put together.
The board looks and works great. I'm not a big fan of the white and grey but that's just me, it still looks very nice. And when the themes are added that should be icing on the cake.

And I think folks are getting confused about open source. Charging for support is perfectly fine. In fact I think it's a great idea. Hopefully it will help Jeff and Joe recoup some of what they've invested. And it should also help attract some corporate users. They don't do anything if they can't get support.

I have a couple of problems with the current license, which I assume will be used with the new software as well, but Yabb's license is still miles ahead of Invision which is not open source at all. However I like phpbb's license. Too bad their program sucks. :(

Like several other folks here tho, I'm a little down on the new name. to me SMF reads as Stupid Mother, well you know............. :) Also, if someone was to write another forum just like yours could they call it Yet Another Simple Machine or YASM for short? And it doesn't have anything to do with TMNT's does it? :)

Anyway, I'd just like to congratulate everyone involved. You've done a terrific job. I think it's gonna be very succesful. Can I register over there too?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 03, 2003, 11:46:59 PM
Can I register over there too?


You bet, we want you over there ;)
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: old dan on August 04, 2003, 12:04:12 AM
actually no I can't. :( I think I may have misspelled my email cuz I haven't gotten my password yet. :'( Should I register?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 04, 2003, 12:06:18 AM
actually no I can't. :( I think I may have misspelled my email cuz I haven't gotten my password yet. :'( Should I register?
Updated your account to use the address you are using here.  Let me know if you want it to be a different one.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: [Unknown] on August 04, 2003, 12:20:07 AM
Notably, we had some users ACTUALLY LEAVE because we didn't offer paid support.. they said something like they didn't trust free support.  That was a MAJOR part of why we now offer paid support - at least for me.

Me, Floris (technically he's gone but I still bug him now and then and won't let him 100% leave :P), and a couple other memebrs of the team want this to stay open source.  However, there are some other concerns we had to deal with.  Because of the way things are phrased in the GPL, some (I won't name names) problems have come about... one of which was someone breaking the law (although his lawyer told him he wasn't, stupid lawyer.) and basically ripping off YaBB SE and then obviously planning to sell it packaged with something else in the future.

We had to hire a lawyer because of the crap.  It's not free to do stuff like that.  And, since Infodoma went down Jeff Leiws and Joeseph Fung have been hosting both Simple Machines and YaBB SE.  That isn't free - or even nearly so.  They have to pay the bills like we all do - and paid support can help them do so.

Paying to have an upgrade done has been done before.  Someone paid me a nice amount of money to upgrade his board and continue supporting it.  But, because I was under 18 and did not have the means to really handle money.... it was a lot of trouble.  If that kind of stuff was supported, not only would people be more willing to upgrade but it would be easier for some of us to handle money.

I will still be providing free support - and when SMF comes out, I'll be providing free support for it.  We're not dropping ANYTHING you could get before, we're only adding new things.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: gandolphxx on August 04, 2003, 12:31:45 AM
What does it take to get the registration confirmation?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 04, 2003, 12:34:22 AM
What does it take to get the registration confirmation?
They should be sent when you signup.

Yours was stuck in the mail que, you should have it now though.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Spaceman-Spiff on August 04, 2003, 01:52:20 AM
about GPL...

GPL is known not able to protect web/network scripts well because it only says a user may not remove the copyright when redistributing the software (modified or not). This wont be much problem with programs that one runs in his/her own computer, because nobody else will see it. But if it's a webscript or a program that's used on a network or by many people, it will be very important to have the copyright notice properly shown there.

I was told that this should be covered in GPL v3, and was recommened for now to use the afero license (http://www.affero.org/oagpl.htm), which is an alternate license, based on the GPL V2 with the network clause, which covers those concerns and is supposedly very similar to what GPL V3 will be (should it ever be finished)

btw, why is the SMF site registration not like in this site? (without email confirmation) i think more people will register that way...
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: David on August 04, 2003, 01:55:29 AM
This site should have e-mail confirmation turned on.  If you don't want your real address publically viewable then choose to hide it.  It is no excuse to use a fake address.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Fizzy on August 04, 2003, 03:44:34 AM
we'll prove you wrong
SMF is going to be a great forum software, whether you like it or not ;)

Hey spACEman sp1ff,

You (the whole team) don't need to prove anything to me. That has been done time and time again. Look around and the proof is right here in the best Message Board I have ever come across.
Will that be duplicated and most probably greatly improved on ? Of course it will, because the team behind it is so good.

Change is necessary to survive, that I understand all too well, but what I have a problem with is a name that
wouldn't accurately represent the product.

1. Php and MySQL coding is not 'simple' by any means otherwise we'd all be writing our own message board software.

2. There's no machines involved here. Think of it from a keyword perspective. There's no mention of any of the keywords you might expect to find like "forum, message, bulletin, board, etc etc".

Obviously the person who decided on the SMF name will be greatly upset to think that the name is being trashed (it is not a person dig) , but I was really cooled out thinking that the new product was going to be called something like "Trinity".

Trinity Bulletin Board
Powered by Trinity BB
Trinity Software
Trinity Support Forum


Instead what do we get?

Powered by Simple Machines

???


Just my opinion.
What ever it is called, I'm sure it will be just as good as 1.5.4.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: ausfx on August 04, 2003, 04:32:19 AM
Will we be able to upgrade from yabbse to simple machines just the way we upgrade to newer yabb versions... will it be that easy?

btw i think the new name is a really stupid choice.  ::) >:(
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: [Unknown] on August 04, 2003, 05:03:57 AM
Too bad I like Simple Machines :P.

Yes, the upgrade is painless.  It's even better than the previous ones ;).  You can even do a backup from it ;D.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: acf [delete me]! on August 04, 2003, 06:37:40 AM
Hey Metho,

We all know there there are ignorant morons who don't know the difference between Gold and SE, but then there are those that do research and can see the difference.

YaBBSE stands alone from Gold because it is far superior, faster and more resourceful. Some people would not know quality if it bit them on the bum.

Viva SE - God Speed SMF (or what ever the hell you want to call it .... Simple Machines ? Jeez ! What sort of message does that give ? ? )


Edit additional -

Jeez ! I have had time enough now to come to hate the name "Simple Machines".

I'm sorry but simple machines has bugger all to do with php, mysql, forums, message boards, admins, moderators, or any other bloody thing you will find in these pages.

Simple Machines as a name sucks big time.
"Simple" is a dumb ass mistake.

Unpopular ? I know I will be, but hey at least I'm honest.

I could aslways go for a copyright with "Dumb Threads" forum, but then that doesn't exist because no-one was idiot enough to go for a name like that,

"Simple" sucks. Nil Points!

its only a name ;) the forum doesnt work any difrend with an other name :P
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Fizzy on August 04, 2003, 07:12:02 AM
Quite ;)

What's in a name anyway?  :P
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Metho on August 04, 2003, 07:15:19 AM
I actually like the name...goes very well with the concept. Rather cool, imho. But of course, I know I'll get flamed for that. :D

Methonis
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Zef Hemel on August 04, 2003, 08:21:03 AM
What's in a name anyway?  :P
Three years of history?
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Kitty on August 04, 2003, 09:01:24 AM
Quite ;)

What's in a name anyway?  :P

just a name .....

http://www.edheads.org/activities/simple-machines/sm-launcher.htm

I knew, i had seen it before ( i have children )
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: Jeff Lewis on August 04, 2003, 09:18:49 AM
Three years of history?

Bad history...some people still think it's only Perl and fltfile.

We've made the change to the new name guys...come and join us or not, your choice.
Title: Re:Taking The Next Step
Post by: [Unknown] on August 05, 2003, 04:42:27 PM
Please note that until SMF is released, support will continue for YaBB SE.

-[Unknown]